raging debates
I participate in debates online every now and again, some of the issues serious, others dreadfully silly, and some so touchy I have to think twice before participating for fear I'll go too far and alienate people I genuinely like, whose point of view I just happen to disagree with. Sometimes, I'll argue as devil's advocate, too, which also alienates people, because I did debate team, and you NEVER concede, no matter how much you disagree with what you're saying... then after the fact, I have to explain, well, no, really I don't *actually* think like that, I'm just an aspiring master debater... *sigh* At any rate. I figured from time to time, just for a change of pace, it might be fun to blog snippets of the raging debates I stumble across here and there.
One of *my* pet debates, one I'll jump in to any time, any place, any time, is male circumcision. Let me begin by saying, first and foremost, that I don't hold anything personally against people who do circumcize their boys. I won't send a mob out after you or force you to don a scarlet letter of any sort. But I will hope that something I say here rattles your cage enough to make you seriously consider.
To keep it concise, I'll just rattle off the rationale I've heard, and debunk whatever myths I feel happen to be attached, but before I do that, I want to share with you a) what a circumcision entails and b) a video of circumcisions.
Circumcision involves two processes. Because the foreskin is actually attached to the glans (head of the penis) it is first necessary to detach it. This is done by scraping a scalpel around in there and cutting the connective tissues. Then the foreskin is snipped off, either by clamping it and scraping with a scalpel, or putting it in a clamp specially designed for circumcisions. Studies have shown (be prepared to be shocked) that this procedure is extremely painful for babies! Now, I realize they use numbing creams or can do a 'block' but if it hurts that much, and isn't medically necessary (like getting a filling or having stitches put in), why are we doing it?
Why are people queasy about the procedure? Circumcision HURTS. While the cream or freezing may numb things during the procedure, eventually the feeling is going to come back. Ladies who have given birth or injured your girly bits know how painful urine is when it gets in an open wound, how water hurts, how pressure from clothing hurts, how wiping hurts. Imagine sitting in a diaper like that, lacking the ability to shift poositions or even vocalize your discomfort. It's not like getting an ear pierced or having a skinned knee, where it hurts for a few minutes then you forget it was done unless you happen to bump it, either. It's on a penis.... swipe of a baby wipe, pee, pressure of the diaper...
Here is that movie of circumcisions that I promised.
"It's a religious ritual that has to be performed." This one is simple for me: I just plain don't understand why any deity, Christian or other, would advocate ritual mutilation of infants. I'm going to hazard a guess that the whole circumcision thing *might* be a human invention, or that perhaps it *might* have been a misinterpretation of scripture. I'm not going to attack religious circumcision, nor will I go into great detail about what I think about the flimsy, sexist, and medically inaccurate rationale they use, but let it be stated that I think ritual circumcision of both males and females is a barbaric practice.
"It's more hygienic." Sure, if you don't intend to teach your sons how to properly wash their genital, then I strongly suggest you get them clipped. I've known some pretty unhygienic people, and they were some of them boys, and some of them girls, and I don't know that any of them was actually circumcized or not but they were dirty gross people regardless. I know a few intact men who are rightfully offended by this misconception.
"It's just a useless piece of skin." Actually, it serves many functions, including protecting the glans and allowing for proper sexual functioning, namely, complete erections. Contrary to popular belief, the glans is actually full of even more nerves than the clitoris.
"It's safer." Circumcision is no longer considered a medical necessity because statistically speaking, there is roughly the same percentage of complications specifically related to circumcized or uncircumcized penises. So if you stand a 1/1000 risk of having an infection either way, why bother? The closest thing to a valid argument in this arena I've heard is that men in palliative care sometimes develop infections. But I won't cut my kids' eyelids off so they never get an eye infection, either.
"It looks nicer." Nicer than what? Penises, as a rule, aren't really all that pretty regardless of whether they are intact or not. They don't resemble a flower blossom or a rare bird, they aren't a particularly stunning shape or colour... So I suppose if you really have aspirations of your son being a porn star and having people envy the supposed physical beauty of your son's penis then great, do it for cosmetic reasons. But that of course means that we must teach our daughters that uncircumcised men are dirty and have unattractive penises.
"It feels nicer." Without getting really graphic, I'm going to call BS on any woman who says they can feel a difference anywhere that it counts.
"What if he notices he's different from other boys who are circumcized?" Oh my gosh! What if he notices some of the boys he goes to school with have crooked teeth? Let me share a story. A friend of mine mentioned that her 8 year old son had a new best friend at school. For several months, she heard all about this new kid, and how he was adjusting to life in the new school. She finally meets this little boy, who is from Zimbabwe, and says, "Oh - you never told me he was black..." to which her son replied, "Joey's* BLACK!?!" And I assure you, the men I know, even the GAY men I know, do NOT go around looking at other men's penises checking to see who is circumcized, and who is not. In fact most men I know go out of their way to AVERT their eyes from other men's penises. In this day and age, the circumcised penis is being outnumbered by the uncircumcised penis, so if you're going to snip or not snip based on current trends, uncircumcized is the new cool. (*Joey is not his real name...)
"I want my son to look like me." This one has always slayed me. I will admit, right up front, that I indeed DO NOT have a penis of my own, and so I can never really fully understand what would drive a man to care that his son's penis look like his own. I shudder to think of any man who would, on a regular or even irregular basis, go and look at his son's penis and say, "Wow - that's so great our penises match..." Nor do I see any father-son relationships being improved upon or strengthened by the act of cicumcision. I want someone to come and tell me about the day any father and son sats down, realized their penises were both circumcized, and felt closer for it. I've never heard of a son go up to his father and say, "Gee, Dad - thanks for circumcizing me - you're my best buddy because we match," or a father sit his son to join him in pulling their pants off, and show him how they are alike. "See? We match!"
What irks me is that a lot of parents won't even go in the rooms with their sons while they get clipped, and most of the women I know make the husbands go in and do it 'if it's so important to him' and so that she can be the 'comforter' after the fact. Women - if you aren't willing to see your son undergo this barbaric practice, then please, stand up for what you believe. Throw evidence and facts and statistics at him, show him pictures and videos of what it looks like, and offer to buy him father-son baseball caps instead.
If you're angry, if you're in agreement, if you're indifferent, if you've changed your mind, if you're disgusted, if you're unmoved, if you're full of rage... at least I made you think.
One of *my* pet debates, one I'll jump in to any time, any place, any time, is male circumcision. Let me begin by saying, first and foremost, that I don't hold anything personally against people who do circumcize their boys. I won't send a mob out after you or force you to don a scarlet letter of any sort. But I will hope that something I say here rattles your cage enough to make you seriously consider.
To keep it concise, I'll just rattle off the rationale I've heard, and debunk whatever myths I feel happen to be attached, but before I do that, I want to share with you a) what a circumcision entails and b) a video of circumcisions.
Circumcision involves two processes. Because the foreskin is actually attached to the glans (head of the penis) it is first necessary to detach it. This is done by scraping a scalpel around in there and cutting the connective tissues. Then the foreskin is snipped off, either by clamping it and scraping with a scalpel, or putting it in a clamp specially designed for circumcisions. Studies have shown (be prepared to be shocked) that this procedure is extremely painful for babies! Now, I realize they use numbing creams or can do a 'block' but if it hurts that much, and isn't medically necessary (like getting a filling or having stitches put in), why are we doing it?
Why are people queasy about the procedure? Circumcision HURTS. While the cream or freezing may numb things during the procedure, eventually the feeling is going to come back. Ladies who have given birth or injured your girly bits know how painful urine is when it gets in an open wound, how water hurts, how pressure from clothing hurts, how wiping hurts. Imagine sitting in a diaper like that, lacking the ability to shift poositions or even vocalize your discomfort. It's not like getting an ear pierced or having a skinned knee, where it hurts for a few minutes then you forget it was done unless you happen to bump it, either. It's on a penis.... swipe of a baby wipe, pee, pressure of the diaper...
Here is that movie of circumcisions that I promised.
"It's a religious ritual that has to be performed." This one is simple for me: I just plain don't understand why any deity, Christian or other, would advocate ritual mutilation of infants. I'm going to hazard a guess that the whole circumcision thing *might* be a human invention, or that perhaps it *might* have been a misinterpretation of scripture. I'm not going to attack religious circumcision, nor will I go into great detail about what I think about the flimsy, sexist, and medically inaccurate rationale they use, but let it be stated that I think ritual circumcision of both males and females is a barbaric practice.
"It's more hygienic." Sure, if you don't intend to teach your sons how to properly wash their genital, then I strongly suggest you get them clipped. I've known some pretty unhygienic people, and they were some of them boys, and some of them girls, and I don't know that any of them was actually circumcized or not but they were dirty gross people regardless. I know a few intact men who are rightfully offended by this misconception.
"It's just a useless piece of skin." Actually, it serves many functions, including protecting the glans and allowing for proper sexual functioning, namely, complete erections. Contrary to popular belief, the glans is actually full of even more nerves than the clitoris.
"It's safer." Circumcision is no longer considered a medical necessity because statistically speaking, there is roughly the same percentage of complications specifically related to circumcized or uncircumcized penises. So if you stand a 1/1000 risk of having an infection either way, why bother? The closest thing to a valid argument in this arena I've heard is that men in palliative care sometimes develop infections. But I won't cut my kids' eyelids off so they never get an eye infection, either.
"It looks nicer." Nicer than what? Penises, as a rule, aren't really all that pretty regardless of whether they are intact or not. They don't resemble a flower blossom or a rare bird, they aren't a particularly stunning shape or colour... So I suppose if you really have aspirations of your son being a porn star and having people envy the supposed physical beauty of your son's penis then great, do it for cosmetic reasons. But that of course means that we must teach our daughters that uncircumcised men are dirty and have unattractive penises.
"It feels nicer." Without getting really graphic, I'm going to call BS on any woman who says they can feel a difference anywhere that it counts.
"What if he notices he's different from other boys who are circumcized?" Oh my gosh! What if he notices some of the boys he goes to school with have crooked teeth? Let me share a story. A friend of mine mentioned that her 8 year old son had a new best friend at school. For several months, she heard all about this new kid, and how he was adjusting to life in the new school. She finally meets this little boy, who is from Zimbabwe, and says, "Oh - you never told me he was black..." to which her son replied, "Joey's* BLACK!?!" And I assure you, the men I know, even the GAY men I know, do NOT go around looking at other men's penises checking to see who is circumcized, and who is not. In fact most men I know go out of their way to AVERT their eyes from other men's penises. In this day and age, the circumcised penis is being outnumbered by the uncircumcised penis, so if you're going to snip or not snip based on current trends, uncircumcized is the new cool. (*Joey is not his real name...)
"I want my son to look like me." This one has always slayed me. I will admit, right up front, that I indeed DO NOT have a penis of my own, and so I can never really fully understand what would drive a man to care that his son's penis look like his own. I shudder to think of any man who would, on a regular or even irregular basis, go and look at his son's penis and say, "Wow - that's so great our penises match..." Nor do I see any father-son relationships being improved upon or strengthened by the act of cicumcision. I want someone to come and tell me about the day any father and son sats down, realized their penises were both circumcized, and felt closer for it. I've never heard of a son go up to his father and say, "Gee, Dad - thanks for circumcizing me - you're my best buddy because we match," or a father sit his son to join him in pulling their pants off, and show him how they are alike. "See? We match!"
What irks me is that a lot of parents won't even go in the rooms with their sons while they get clipped, and most of the women I know make the husbands go in and do it 'if it's so important to him' and so that she can be the 'comforter' after the fact. Women - if you aren't willing to see your son undergo this barbaric practice, then please, stand up for what you believe. Throw evidence and facts and statistics at him, show him pictures and videos of what it looks like, and offer to buy him father-son baseball caps instead.
If you're angry, if you're in agreement, if you're indifferent, if you've changed your mind, if you're disgusted, if you're unmoved, if you're full of rage... at least I made you think.
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